Snow April 19, 2014 at 08:59 pm
After reading all that I could see someone who doesn't go from point A to point B without takingRead More sidetrips to point C, D, and Y a few times. Don't take that wrong- its more interesting that way.
lisa shoshannah shaw April 19, 2014 at 10:10 pm
Dr. Jim Gardner
Jim Gardner April 19, 2014 at 08:29 pm
Hi Old Timer. Remember that the original focus of this research was whether or not we should thinkRead More about starting our own USD and breaking away from SVUSD. The first question to my mind was "how good a job are we doing right now?" because if SVUSD is doing a good job educating our students, it seems less desirable to want to break away from them. So I have been slowly going through the results to see how we are doing. It looks as if we are not doing poorly, but compared to the schools in cities around us, it looks like their kids are performing better. This raises the question which you have asked, is it because the cities have people with higher incomes, or more Asians, or fewer Hispanics, etc. I have one more set of results to work with and then I will address your question which is certainly an important one.
OldTimer April 19, 2014 at 10:22 pm
Hi Bob, I can always count on you for a straightforward and unambiguous to-the-point answer. ThankRead More you, sir. And you strike me as a true American who wants to stop the bleeding and restore America to the great nation that we once were, acclaimed and respected across the globe! And I agree with you, Bob. The K-12 US public school system is a pathetic farce and an international embarrassment. Poor nations run academic circles around us and nobody seems to have the common sense to understand why. We are already spending the highest per-capita amounts on student K-12 education (40% or more of the State budget which is about $100B dollars) and still they cry for more! The high school I attended had avg. 40 student per class inside a 60 year old building that leaked when it rained. If we skipped classes and failed to do our assignments the administration tossed us out on our ears. 85%-90% of us eventually graduated with at least a 4 year university degree. Many with advanced degrees. Reason for achievement? Discipline and no-nonsense education. But it wasn't just the school. Our parents pushed us too. Our grades were mailed to them. And C's or D's better come with a darn good explanation. Today if the students don't do well enough they dumb down the curriculum until enough get passing scores, so the school districts won't be embarrassed. Look at the national standardized tests. California is right down toward the bottom of the pack. Mississippi outscored us last year. Absolutely disgraceful! Oh, and thank you for the history lesson, Bob. No idea that the Council even voted on E-Verify. I didn't realize it was even on a previous agenda. And if McCullough refused to 2nd it - shame on her. Which former council person proposed it? Do you remember? And shame on Voights if he wanted to spend city money on a hiring hall in Lake Forest for illegals. That's disgusting but doesn't surprise me. Voights seems to be an agenda driven politician who follows orders, incapable of productive independent thought. His buddy Robinson falls into the same bucket. I feel sorry for the asian kids. Now they want to bring back Affirmative Action to punish the asian kids who account for about 40% of the UC enrollment population. They study too darn hard and achieve too much so the braintrusts want to replace them with less academically qualified students who have a skin color other than yellow. Again, punishing the high achievers and rewarding the less academically qualified for the sake of political correctness. Maybe somebody could tell me why Affirmative Action is not applied to the NBA - so a few more asians could have the opportunity to play pro basketball and make multi-millions of dollars each year? If we are going to use Affirmative Action in universities and in corporations then let's do it evenly across the board out of 'fairness' to all. Otherwise we truly do live in a 'racist' society and it must be condemned!
OldTimer April 19, 2014 at 10:49 pm
Thank you for your response, Mr. Gardner. I believe to identify the predominant problem(s) thatRead More account for variance in academic scores among our youth, the scope of your investigation needs to go outside this relatively small educational setting in south OC. Everyone knows that both Santa Ana and Anaheim are having terrible problems with academic performance. SVUSD students look like geniuses next to SAUSD or Anaheim City School District. There is tremendous evidence that culture and values are extremely important in academic success, Mr. Gardner. It's plain common sense. And you don't have to be a PhD to figure it out. Those who value education achieve greater academic success. Just as those who value athletics become better athletes. I just wish we had more people in our society with the courage it takes to focus on the real problems instead of just spinning our wheels as our society continues to deteriorate and flounder. Jerry Brown is a perfect example of a guy who knows what the problem is but refuses to address it out of political correctness. His solution is to steal money and resources from the achievers who value education and turn them over to the groups that do not value education or value it much less. That's the wrong solution. Think of it this way. Let's say a brilliant university psychologist who had multiple studies published in acclaimed medical journals and was a recognized expert worldwide was forced to give up part of his salary and accrued grant monies to a lesser qualified psychologist who was having a difficult time with basic coursework. The reason given was to level the playing field. How would that brilliant psychologist react? Would it incentivize him to work harder?
Dr. Jim Gardner
OldTimer April 19, 2014 at 08:22 am
Good one, Tom. Or maybe Robinson needs to publicly trashtalk public unions and pensions while heRead More takes union money donated through PACS and drops to his knees before OCSD and OCFA! Or maybe Robinison needs to head some critical public service (like a CalOptima equivalent) in Lake Forest, working the special interests which are financially dependent on the service throw house party fund raisers for him and raise 100's of thousands of dollars to elevate him to his next higher office (see Janet Nguyen), and in the end destroys the effectiveness of the service provided to the people. If Robinson would do that he may be qualified for a State Senate seat. Forget about the Assembly. Robinson needs to learn from his mentors and breed his own success.....like bacteria breeds in a petri dish.
Tom Cagley April 19, 2014 at 01:07 pm
Jim & Old Timer: I was reading an article earlier today that contained a quote from Steve Jobs:Read More "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower." Sort of describes the leadership, or lack thereof, of a lot of elected, doesn't it. All of these people may be quite successful in the niche they have, but if they can't think 'outside the box', there will not be innovation. One of the things I felt about the Planning Commission: council seemed to be looking for people that had never been away from the village, thus, nothing new because they have never been exposed to anything being done in a different way.
OldTimer April 19, 2014 at 03:35 pm
Tom, real creative thinkers who want to make their mark on the world avoid politics like the bubonicRead More plague. Why? Because in the political environment you are punished for thinking outside the box. Creativity is stifled. If you notice, the ones who are tremendously successful in politics are the 'go along to get along' types. Oh, they wear nice suits and many (not all) are articulate when they speak. Some even have advanced degrees - but 90% rarely have an original thought. They normally look at what others do and if it works they copy it then take credit. They piggy back on the ideas of others. We saw them do it with the park ban on sex offenders, even though it was ill advised from the very start. They wanted to please the big dogs in county government while garnering favor from the hysterical masses. And you saw what fools the council made of themselves after the smoke finally cleared. It's as if they can't see past the end of their noses. A psychologist back in the 70's (Janis) coined the term 'Groupthink' - and it is alive and well today in the world of politics. Whatever provides a short term benefit for the decision makers wins. It's the nature of the beast. Hence, insanity (doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different outcome) rules and I don't see it changing anytime soon. It truly is crazy making stuff for outsiders looking in unless one maintains a safe distance and views it as entertainment only. Like the difference between watching an old Mel Brook's movie and creating a life that reflects a Mel Brooks movie. It's not so funny when you find yourself on the inside looking out.
andy fischer April 19, 2014 at 09:05 pm
"When is someone going to demand that parents take responsibility." I demand parents takeRead More responsibility. OK now what?
Ziegler April 20, 2014 at 01:06 am
Karl has not blamed teachers and in fact he laments that Parents are ignored especially the ParentsRead More who want the besat for their kids. Over all the teachers are very much respected. As in any profession there are a few who are unworthy and we cannot sacrifice the children in order to guarantee jobs to those who do not belong in the profession. One example that comes to mind was a teacher who was a drunk and taught at a San Fernando Valley Middle School. Because he camt to work sauced every day he was removed from teaching duties while we continued to pay him. He was given one chore only, and that was to conduct the home room class in the morning. He was unable to do so and stayed at his desk swigging from a bottle. The children were scared to death of him for he was a mean drunk and threatened them. He was tenured and therefore his needs for income superceded the children'd need for safety, life and limb, education, and to get the things done that are needed in homeroom. There comes a point at which even the teachers and the principle have to admit that there are some who do not belong in the profession, and some who could be endangering the children's best interests, for after all you must admit that is what they are there for and for which you are there as well.
Ziegler April 20, 2014 at 01:14 am
Unfortunately Parent skills are not taugt in the high schools of this land. Unrealistically weRead More expect humans to have a sixth sense as to how best to raise their offspring. That does not happen. Too many parents use corporal punishment in the belief that they are helping their children. Some abuse terribly there kids both verbally and physically. But we leave them to their own devices and expect them to instinctively know. In L.A. the Latino's are now in the majority with many having no English language skills, which is needed when you are going to be of help in your childrens education. So stop the self serving baloney in which you easily pass off the responsibility to those who cannot fight back- that is to say the uneducated themselves parents. If you sincerely want parental help, and I see no evidence of that, then lobby and shout for Parenting classes and adult education, for the children's sake.
Dr. Jim Gardner
OldTimer April 17, 2014 at 09:16 am
I view Jerry Brown like that old English folklore hero Robin Hood. With one exception. Jerry usesRead More the law to rob you. Robin did it unlawfully. Take from the achievers and give to the underperformers. Now that is a real formula for success and achievement, isn't it? Kudos, Jerry. The Californian's love you, man! And the more you take from the producers and give to the ones on the dole the higher your approval ratings go! On the standardized tests in California why don't we just make the print so small for the high achieving schools that it's practically impossible for the scholars to read the questions so that it slows them down, thus comparatively raising the scores for the underperforming schools. We need to do something other than taking money from the high achievers and giving it to the underperformers. That trick hasn't worked for years. Let's think outside the box, okay?
Bob Holtzclaw April 17, 2014 at 12:34 pm
OldTimer, I don't like get in these discussions on why our city isn't on the same level as ourRead More neighbors. This all started over 20 years ago around the time we became a city and our County Supervisor was pro "undocumented alien". He received a lot of support from Latino organizations according to his aid at the end. We also had a completely incompetent City Council that had no idea how to deal with the problem. Both could have gotten rid of the day labor site and other problems when we had the law on our side. Now we have two to three families living in one home and illegally in garages. To be fair some of these kids really do try to improve their education, but the majority its a very low priority.
OldTimer April 17, 2014 at 03:18 pm
Mr. Holtzclaw, I love your straightforwardness. And, of course, you nailed part of the problem thatRead More most people just don't want to talk about out of political correctness. We can't solve the problems of the rest of the world, sir. We can't take on their problems and remain a productive nation with a high quality of life for our own citizens who want the laws that make us a civilized soveriegn land honored and respected. Once I called up the local police office. I asked a cop whether it was legal for 15 people to live in a 1400 square foot home and park 7 different cars on the street. He told me that if the health department didn't get involved that there was nothing they could do. Yet if a citizen taxpayer lived in a 5000 square foot home and owned 6 dogs or cats without permission from the authorities they would confiscate the animals and hit the homeowner with a substantial fine. We live in a crazy society, Bob. If you think about it too much it would drive you nuts. That's why diversions and a sense of humor are so darn important. I understand your point completely. And you are spot on. And this has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with protecting the soveriegnty of our nation.
Brian Moloney - The Freelance Retort April 15, 2014 at 12:05 pm
Thanks Mimi...actually I'm usually told I'm as unprofessional as can be. But have your people callRead More my people, and their people call their people and pretty soon the word people just sounds weird.... And Lisa, get your head out of the toilet, please. But yeah...it's "E"
lisa shoshannah shaw April 15, 2014 at 03:32 pm
I will do no such a thing! so thank the Lord it's E, cos ur momma would not be eligible for mother'sRead More day gifts if it was U.
renmethod April 16, 2014 at 09:46 am
Fun write up, thank you for sharing :)
Dr. Jim Gardner
Jim Gardner April 15, 2014 at 03:44 pm
Great idea. Not only do other cities do this, but I believe the State has a similar process. This isRead More usually done by giving the extra 5% to the score that the company receives during the bidding process. And that 5% can make a difference. But this means that the Council has to value giving our own money to our own people and businesses. The last time I looked, for people like Voigts and Robinson, most of their campaign contributions comes from companies or people who live outside Lake Forest, and I can recognize at least one of those names in the 10 listed above.
Jerry Zechmeister April 15, 2014 at 04:06 pm
Sorry for my horrible spelling, but you got the point. It would be a simple process to implement.Read More We have placed bids to the City of Los Angeles and Riverside, both have a local incentive. We only win those bids when there is no source for our products within their borders.
Jim Gardner April 16, 2014 at 07:04 am
Exactly. I spoke AGAIN at the City Council last night urging them once more to do something toRead More direct more of our $35,000,000 per year to our local people and businesses.
Dr. Jim Gardner
OldTimer April 15, 2014 at 06:41 pm
Ricardo. Nice try. How could you possibly find the subjects that you are looking for to compareRead More illegal immigrants or children of illegal immigrants with 'similar backgrounds' of children who are legally in the country and with legal parents? Are you referring only to immigrants who arrived in the country legally who were offspring of parents authorized to enter America? That's where it gets confusing. You need to differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants, or products thereof. Westminster is full of poor asians, many who are probably 1st generation immigrants. Why not compare those subjects with the hispanic immigrants in Santa Ana? Wouldn't that be a fair and valid comparison, based upon the model of your study? I could tell you how that study would turn out with my eyes closed. Oh, and most of the Vietnamese refugees were not former government officials or "bureaucrats" (your term) born with silver spoons in their mouths. Most were poor Vietnamese people who were forced out of their nation by war. Arrived here with basically NOTHING! Fled in rickety boats and many didn't survive their mode of travel. And many, if not most, had to receive welfare once they arrived in America just to survive. And look at the thriving business community those folks turned Little Saigon into. A laudable achievement! But to claim that 1st generation immigrants (legal or illegal?) outperform 3rd generation immigrants just makes me scratch my head in confusion. It makes absolutely no logical sense from a rational perspective. There must be much more to the picture than meets the eye (Neil Young's words) with that study of yours. But I think making a blanket statement that 1st generation immigrants outperform succeeding generations academically is strongly misleading and takes the reader down a crooked road. My opinion.
Jim Gardner April 16, 2014 at 06:59 am
Old Timer. FWIW The % of older people in LB is 18.3% compared to only 9.2% in LF.
Ricardo Cabeza April 16, 2014 at 08:35 am
Old Timer says: "But I think making a blanket statement that 1st generation immigrantsRead More outperform succeeding generations academically is strongly misleading and takes the reader down a crooked road." The study says that by the third generation many of the cultural tools that contributed to success were gone. Beginning with the third generation, the positive aspects of American culture combined with their native culture can lead to further success for subsequent generations.
Jeffe' April 19, 2014 at 10:59 am
I wouldn't live in any other country, but it is incredibly immature and ignorant to not realize thatRead More we have a laundry list of things to improve. Blind faith and devotion with that "we are #1" attitude without rational thought might be what all governments (and religions) would like to have, but as far as being a citizen and member of humanity goes it is your duty to use your brain....
Just Tim April 19, 2014 at 11:11 am
Jeffe", the reason I pointed out that we are leading in most categories is simple. We actuallyRead More put our dirty laundry right out in the open. No other country is willing or in some cases allowed to do that. In some places, they aren't even allowed to think about doing that. I do agree with most of your laundry list, but compared to any other place, it ain't all bad. That my friend is using our brains. Which also means at times using our brawn to protect us from those who use their brain for less good.
x April 19, 2014 at 12:43 pm
Thanks Carl. Great article. Since it hasn't been mentioned here, i thought i'd muddy the waters aRead More bit by mentioning how prohibition empowers organized crime ….. cheers!
Stock Market Bubble
andy fischer April 14, 2014 at 07:14 am
My hairdresser gave me some good stock tips. So therefore, I don't need any Day Trader Software.
Allen Rodgers April 14, 2014 at 09:48 pm
Andy so many traders having the same thinking, but your hairdresser can not save you from marketRead More crises, human can make mistakes during trading but robotic trading systems can not. We use technologies in all places so why not in the our trade.
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