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POLL: Supreme Court's Health Care Decision, Right or Wrong?

Court largely upholds the law, often referred to as Obamacare, in a Thursday morning ruling. What's your take?

The Supreme Court of the United States largely upheld the Affordable Care Act in a hotly-debated and long-anticipated decision Thursday morning.

The individual mandate, a key provision of the law that requires most Americans to maintain “minimum essential” health insurance coverage, passed muster with the judges.

Their decision did however limit the ability of the law, known as Obamacare, to require states to expand their Medicare programs. 

You can find the text of the court's ruling here.

The ruling will affect millions of people; it is also expected to boost President Barack Obama's chances in the November presidential elections.

What's your take on the court's ruling on the health care law? TELL US IN THE COMMENTS

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We the People...... June 30, 2012 at 02:52 pm
People are suppose to help people, that is why a government bill was even considered. But, I don't believe government should be in charge of this help, but everyone should stand up and help others, if this would happen then we wouldn't even have to debate government control. Let's all work together to help our neighbor with what we have been given.........helping others not only helps them, it helps you. Helping others:
• Increases your happiness • Increases the feel-good part of the brain • Reminds you how relatively blessed you really are • Feeling of connectedness to others • You feel needed and effective • It takes your mind off of your worries for a while • Feel generous • Add a sense of purpose and meaning to life I went on Google and searched helping others increases happiness, there were several articles about the subject and these specific thoughts were from an article in the Sacramento News. If we are helping others by supporting a "tax" for medical care, we will not get the same benefits as us finding a person in need and helping them ourselves.
Dave June 30, 2012 at 03:05 pm
As usual a substance free but at least mercifully brief parade of ignorant far right extremist Talking Points. Here's a clue, you're told to rail against "Big Government" but probably couldn't give me a good description of what that is and no doubt you'd call me a liar if I told you that with Clinton and Obama, the number of government employees went down- a lot. Under every Republican since Nixon, that number is reversed and government grows. But the real reason you're told to hate "Big Government"? Well, that's simple because in the world of the ,001%, you know, the people the Republicans actually represent, Big Government means that they are restrained from doing any damn thing they please with their ooodles of money. They actually consider it a threat to their "freedom" that they can't pollute, treat their workers like crap and actually have to pay taxes and it's this "Big Government" they resent for forcing them to behave as civilized human beings.
And what's really funny is these are the same jokers who don't consider putting the government smack dab in the middle of our personal lives, telling us who we can and can't love, spying on us sans court order and any number of other authoritarian "Big Government" actions isn't "Big Government" but keeping greedy ultra wealthy characters like the Koch Bros. from dumpling carcinogens throughout our environment, is. Go figure
James Schumaker June 30, 2012 at 03:13 pm
Apex, regarding your comments on emergency rooms, I've got bad news for you: we all pay for emergency room care right now, even without "Obamacare," if not in increased taxes, then in increased debt. The overwhelming majority of people using emergency rooms are there for -- you guessed it -- medical emergencies, many because they have no insurance and because they cannot afford or do not want to pay for regular preventative care. The key thing is not their status in this country -- it is that they are poor, or are freeloading on the system. Anything we can do to get these people out of the emergency room and into the regular medical care system will save us all money in the long run.
The last time I went to an emergency room it was to treat my wife, who had no insurance at the time (it kicked in one day later). For five hours of treatment I was eventually billed $10,000 (a bill that an insurance company would have negotiated way down, and of which I would have paid about 10 percent). Emergency room treatment is fantastically expensive, and anything we can do to keep people out of emergency rooms saves us all money, because as things are now we all end up getting stuck with the bill. There is no free lunch, but some lunches are more healthy and less costly than others. The ACA is far from perfect, but it is light years better than the current system.
Shripathi Kamath June 30, 2012 at 03:52 pm
Congress passes laws to impose "fines", not Michelle Obama. Or Barrack Obama.
met00 June 30, 2012 at 03:52 pm
@James,
You are barking up a dead tree. You want to discuss the "facts", but the original post has all the red flags of a fact-free intellect. 1) "we are all going to be taxed for this healthcare" 2) "who pays for illegal aliens in this country" 3) "use our hospitals for babies" 4) "Obamanation" 5) "obamacare is crap" Red flags all. Apex most likely doesn't even know what the ACA actually does (hint: when asked if they support the individual provisions of the ACA in stand alone mode over 60% of Declared Republicans supported all but one provision). The bottom line is with all the red flags, this isn't about the ACA, it's just regular hate of "the other". Whether "the other" is a black man running the country or brown people, it's all about hate. Having no real control over their lives these haters will hate anything that is different from them and actually discussing the issue is futile, as it's not the issue, but "the other".
met00 June 30, 2012 at 04:03 pm
@We,
There are those that believe in "the common good" and those that don't. There are those that actually feel that they are their brothers keepers, that they should treat others as they want to be treated, that understand that lifting the least among us lifts us all. Generally these people are called progressives. They don't do it because that increases their happiness, but because they know it is right to do it, to give. It is part of their identity. You see it in things like Doctors Without Borders, and that random person who actually offers a homeless person work so they can earn some money to help make their life better. There are people that understand in their hearts that one of their roles here on earth is to cast bread upon the waters. They don't do it for themselves, but because they know it is the right thing to do. And then there are those that believe in "I get mine, you get yours yourself." They believe in survival of the fittest. They think that life is a I win you lose proposition. A competition where if you get better then they are losing something in the process. In general in America these people are called Republicans. Consider that if every American had access to Medicare the cost would drop by over 60% (it's already 30% less expensive than for-profit health insurance). So for about 40% the cost of a for-profit health policy you could get a health program that would cover everyone.
met00 June 30, 2012 at 04:06 pm
@alberto
Black guy in the White House really pisses you off, doesn't it? I don't see you bitching about Mrs. Romney, whose husband instituted this policy (about 80% of it) in MA. White rich lady married to white rich guy who did this = good. Got it. Now you can start to explain why your not a racist pig.
Marc Schroeder June 30, 2012 at 05:41 pm
I was going to respond to Apex's asinine post, but it seems to me that has already been handled. Nice job! : )
Marc Schroeder June 30, 2012 at 05:54 pm
"Moron (psychology), disused term for a person with a mental age between 8 and 12, and a common insult for a person considered stupid" Well Bob, considering the fact the Justice Roberts has earned his title while you are nothing more than an obnoxious right-wing nut-job? Would you happen to be between the age of 8 and 12? : )
Marc Schroeder June 30, 2012 at 05:56 pm
I can't wait to read you pissing and moaning Nov. 8th. : )
tinytom June 30, 2012 at 06:05 pm
met00 yes, a saying is it's better to give than to receive. Hey, I've got a question that's been answered for me by some smart people but I haven't determined for myself if true or not. It is assumed by most that the world has to have a constantly growing number of people so that there are enough workers supporting the older people - a pyramid shape population curve, (how steep is a question). But the thing about scientific discoveries applied to technolgy is that it enables fewer workers to support more people. Some say that to build and maintain this higher level economy that comes with the better technologies, it takes MORE people in more specialized jobs that are created from the new technology, and so more and more people are needed. Now it makes sense to me that one worker with the higher technology can support more retirees, and I can see that say the Apollo Project would require many specialized jobs that would need more people to work on, but couldn't these people come from those currently doing less technical and less productive jobs, so overall you wouldn't need more people, just re-train them? Or in this better economy with more workers in the specialized technological jobs, you also need more people doing the jobs of paper pushing, overhead, cleaning, maintanence, etc, and so overall you need a growing population?
It's a very impt question.
met00 June 30, 2012 at 06:13 pm
wow,a rushbo right-wing clone was unable to post something original.
Why am I not surprised?
James Schumaker June 30, 2012 at 09:07 pm
@met00 I guess you're right, but I've got to give it the old college try anyway.
Seth Eaker June 30, 2012 at 10:50 pm
I have seen Logan's Run. Interesting thought, I assume you mean to imply a parallel. Everyone die at 40?
MFriedrich July 1, 2012 at 12:08 am
Whenever government steps in and thinks it can solve a social and market problem all at once, there are usually serious unintended consequences. If there is any good news here it would be that now there is no excuse for young and old to not get regular preventative care, especially for young children.
But to believe for one minute that federal and state govts can step in like this and that the biggest insurers Kaiser Permanente, Blue Cross and Healthnet (among others) would stand idly by and "lose out", forget it. If you already enjoy a generous health insurance package today through an employer (like a PPO), buckle up.
Marc Schroeder July 1, 2012 at 12:33 am
So, do you think mandatory auto insurance is a bad idea? You are correct it will enable the working poor and their children to get preventative care however, those insurance companies you are concerned about are not going to "lose out". In fact, they are going to have millions of new customers who must buy insurance or pay a fine. In the future? I would suggest having at least a vague notion about a subject before offering commentary on it to avoid sounding foolish.
Shripathi Kamath July 1, 2012 at 12:53 am
Healthcare is not a social problem.
It is a market problem only to the same extent it always has been. It wasn't exactly invented by Obama, and it was also not the first time someone has tried to do something to help it before it is irreparably broken. 1986. St. Reagan made sure that ERs would not turn away anyone regardless of their ability to pay. Now, I am not criticizing that decision as much as I am pointing out the selective amnesia people have to "government not interfering". "But to believe for one minute that federal and state govts can step in like this and" and what? Make sure that more people are covered so that the most expensive place, the ER, is not the only resort for uninsured sick people? Thereby jacking up everyone's costs? That they'll have to pay for taking the risk on our behalf by getting a job that provides insurance or buying it? That it does not magically solve all the problems with healthcare? Or is it because a Kenyan muslin socialist fascist liberal Soros puppet colonial black borrowed an idea that kinda works in Mass., was originally proposed in a similar form by the other side, but denied just so that he does not have a policy "win" for all of us? As to govt. providing solutions, I do not see Lehman bros. around anymore. I do know that had the govt not built the Erie canal, there would NEVER have been a Lehman bros.
tinytom July 1, 2012 at 01:47 am
Let me answer. Now, because the majority of workers are in not-productive jobs, if we changed and went to a more productive economy, we could just re-train current people and there wouldn't be more people required as a whole. But overall, and as a princible requirement because mankind is different than the animals and transforms nature with his higher reason, there has to be more and more people going ahead in time. And along with more and more people comes a longer life span and better living conditions for all. But there is a paradox now that is being exploited in a divide and rule way, which is that the less developed areas of the world have higher birth rates than the more developed areas. The reasons for this are many like a womans identity, infant mortality, the fact that it takes more resources, energy and time to develop a child in a more advanced culture than in a simpler one.
So by calling oneself a progressive and being a long term ZPG advocate, I don't think you have thought things through carefully.
Shripathi Kamath July 1, 2012 at 02:10 am
@tinytom, The Atlantic recently featured a set of articles looking at something germane to the point you bring up:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/the-economic-history-of-the-last-2-000-years-in-1-little-graph/258676/ In short, it is true that early (first century AD) more people meant a bigger economy, but the Industrial Revolution changed that. Which is also why the countries who benefited from it early on reaped the most benefits where as countries like India and China are only now catching on. There are other reasons, but a growing population is not warranted like it was in days past. It is, in Japan, for instance, but for a different reason. Hunter-gatherer societies were pretty linear, more the number, more the group flourished. Today, you have better economies of scale. For example, food to feed the entire world population could be grown in about 2% of arable land. (OK, maybe slightly more than 2%, I am going from memory) "the fact that it takes more resources, energy and time to develop a child in a more advanced culture than in a simpler one" Explain, please. What is an advanced culture compared to a simpler one, just so that I have a point of reference.
Yeparoo July 1, 2012 at 02:18 am
@ Apex - I see many have responded to your post without answering your question. The PPACA is not Universal Health Care. It does not cover illegal aliens. They can continue to use emergency rooms and where available, community clinics. Time will tell if the legislation is crap. It has parts that are very goo and very bad. The legislation is essentially 'health INSURANCE reform. I personally believe it has fatal design flaws that will lead to it's demise. Items such as the CLASS Act have been shelved because they are completely unworkable. IMO, it's a matter of when it will collapse and what will follow.
Yeparoo July 1, 2012 at 02:21 am
@met00 - ?
Yeparoo July 1, 2012 at 02:37 am
@mfried & Shri - What am I missing? Seems like you are in agreement. The 'Government' should have a role in determining the scheme (since they cant seem to get a workable universal care program). The goal should be to cover the maximum number of citizens at the lowest possible cost. The PPACA is an attempt to cover more, but does not appear to be bending the cost curve.
tinytom July 1, 2012 at 02:49 am
More advanced is like Europe/US was, where to get a child to function it takes 21-25 years of education and training to get the person going. Where in a less develped area that child can get going much earlier with much less education and training.
Shripathi Kamath July 1, 2012 at 03:14 am
"What am I missing? Seems like you are in agreement."
Not quite, unless I botched it up completely. Firstly, I do not believe that it is a social problem, and secondly I do not see the government necessarily causing serious unintended consequences, merely because they are "government". And I also do not think they tried at all to solve all of it at once. "The PPACA is an attempt to cover more, but does not appear to be bending the cost curve." In my estimation, increasing the insured pool will contain the rate of increases, but not much beyond that. Which means that we will still see increases in premiums, only they might be 7.1% instead of 10.1% (examples only). The 3% is bending the cost curve a little. Remember, ObamaCare regulates access to health care, not health care itself. As long as healthcare remains a for-max-profit business, and this is not to argue whether it should or should not, cost savings comes at the mercy of the providers. As it stands, ObamaCare hands the insurance companies 15-30 million new customers gift wrapped on a silver platter. Paid for. In return, they are expected to keep the rate increases from being too steep. quid pro quo
tinytom July 1, 2012 at 12:53 pm
By, "In short, it is true that early (1st century AD) more people meant a bigger economy, but the Industrial Revolution changed that.", I take it you agree that economic development decreases birth rates, (when going from less to more developed areas today). And you say "a growing population is not warranted like it was in the past." So what do you think is a remedy for the large scale and growing poverty around the world, represented with these stats?: www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats
Shripathi Kamath July 1, 2012 at 01:41 pm
@tinytom,
A really complex issue, which I cannot even begin to address in this limited context. But a one word answer: education. It should be a good topic for discussion in its own right. If only the Patch had a discussion forum where one could start a topic and discuss it. Or may be one can blog an article and then we can all attack it. :-)
Al Wehrle July 1, 2012 at 05:00 pm
Sripathi, as usual is spot on. A very good care system exists in Taiwan. When they went to design their program a number of years ago...long before the ACA....they took a good look at what we have been doing in this country and correctly concluded to adopt none of our methodology and pretty much do the opposite of what passes for a system in this country. Check with their citizens, providers, and budget gurus....all are quite pleased. Show this to our Rethuglican House of Representatives.
Alberto Barrera July 1, 2012 at 05:55 pm
@met00 Do you even know who you're writing to?
MFriedrich July 1, 2012 at 06:45 pm
Well, who's looking after the health insurance companies in this new deal? It's not fair, I mean look at this. The goal posts have been moved yet again. How are they going to make a profit here? Pre-existing condition tactics and otherwise denying sick people health coverage became a very lucrative business and one that employed thousands of highly paid, and might I add, highly taxed individuals.
Shripathi Kamath July 1, 2012 at 07:07 pm
@mfriedrich The insurance companies were dying. The margins were getting slim where they had more incentive to move to other industries.
Like renters' insurance which will be one of the next boom sectors. Till ObamaCare gave them a temporary reprieve. For about a decade. For better or for worse, we are moving towards single-payer, because the government will soon be the *only* entity that can afford to remain in the market. Their administration costs will be minimal (like they are of Social Security, since profit is no longer the prime motivation), and the healthcare providers would prefer to get paid. Note to wingnuts-wannabe: I did not say that I want a single-payer system, I am simply pointing out that given how we are today, and the reluctance of Congress to do much, we may have no choice but a single-payer system. Status quo before ObamaCare was unsustainable. ObamaCare too is unsustainable, but it gives us about 8-10 years to find a viable alternative
Note Article
Just a short thought to get the word out quickly about anything in your neighborhood.
Share something with your neighbors. Write a new post... What's up? Make an announcement, speak your mind, or sell something
Homer June 17, 2013 at 01:45 pm
Not sure... the OCSD case number is 13-113501 - Unknown Trouble. No further information is provided.Read More Probably several teens getting an early jump on celebrating the end of the school year.
Mike Shane June 6, 2013 at 07:07 pm
I believe it is time we had representation that understands what it means to serve. Because, afterRead More all, isn't a House Member's job to serve the people of his/her district? And who understands service better than a former Marine Corps Colonel? I briefly met Colonel Raths yesterday and it is my belief that he is doing this for all the right reasons and will provide what has been missing in Congress for far too long---INTEGRITY, HONESTY, PATRIOTISM, SELFLESSNESS & SERVICE. And if I heard correctly, yesterday, he has already hired the best possible company, a company with an extremely innovative and intelligent leader, to run his campaign. This company will serve him well and when the facts come about about Greg Raths, the people of the 45th District will have the easiest choice at the polls in quite some time. This is the man who will do the right thing for his district 10 times out of 10. Go Greg! When you find out the amazingly wonderful things he has done for his country, there really is no choice. Colonel Greg Raths USMC Retired for Congress, 2014.
Brian Lance May 29, 2013 at 08:19 pm
Power was out here near El Toro and Trabuco for a bit more than an hour. The power was also outRead More from about 4:30am to 6am this morning.
Martin Henderson (Editor) May 29, 2013 at 11:20 pm
Story is now posted. Here is the link:
Martin Henderson (Editor) May 29, 2013 at 11:20 pm
Oops, here is the link:Read More http://lakeforest-ca.patch.com/groups/around-town/p/thousands-lose-power-in-lake-forest-mission-viejo
AAA Wolverines Championship Game
Martin Henderson (Editor) May 30, 2013 at 07:25 pm
John, continue to use the Board or the Blog tool to let us know how the team is doing. These toolsRead More are designed for service organizations to use. I would love to see Little League results in a weekly blog with scores and highlights from games.